Paul Pangaro’s career spans startups, teaching, performance, and consulting. He has been applying models of conversation to interaction design and organizational design since meeting Gordon Pask in the late 1970s while on research staff at the MIT Architecture Machine Group. His researching and making is grounded in the twin concepts of “design for conversation” and “design as conversation.” He is currently leading the #NewMacy initiative in response to global wicked challenges, including the pandemic of today’s AI algorithms and is also President of the American Society for Cybernetics. His work can be found on his website.