{"id":2119,"date":"2022-08-11T17:08:44","date_gmt":"2022-08-11T17:08:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/?p=2119"},"modified":"2022-08-11T18:31:35","modified_gmt":"2022-08-11T18:31:35","slug":"scale-your-organization-and-grow-your-designers","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/2022\/08\/11\/scale-your-organization-and-grow-your-designers\/","title":{"rendered":"Scale Your Organization and Grow Your Designers"},"content":{"rendered":"<article>\n<div class=\"l\">\n<div class=\"l\">\n<section>\n<div>\n<div class=\"ia ib ic id ie\">\n<p id=\"89d9\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><em class=\"kn\">The following article is based on a recent interview conducted by Lou Rosenfeld, Publisher of Rosenfeld Media from his podcast,\u00a0<\/em><a class=\"au ko\" href=\"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/rosenfeld-review-podcast\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener ugc nofollow noreferrer\"><em class=\"kn\">The Rosenfeld Review<\/em><\/a><em class=\"kn\">. The interview has been edited for clarity and length.<\/em><\/p>\n<p id=\"b201\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">This week, Lou sits down with the Head of Design for the Data Team at Amplitude, Courtney Maya George, to discuss her talk \u201cScale Your Organization and Grow Your Designers,\u201d which she\u2019ll be presenting at this year\u2019s\u00a0<a class=\"au ko\" href=\"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener ugc nofollow noreferrer\">DesignOps Summit<\/a>\u00a0(September 8\u20139, virtual). What is a Design Leader\u2019s role in providing stability for their team? How has that role changed over the course of the pandemic? Over the past few years, the security employees feel at their jobs has fluctuated drastically. Are there tools we are already using that can help our teams feel more confident in these uncertain times? Listen as Courtney and Lou touch on these topics, and more.<\/p>\n<p><code><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?url=https%3A\/\/api.soundcloud.com\/tracks\/1321610974&amp;color=%23539733&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=true&amp;show_comments=false&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;show_teaser=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"166\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/code><\/p>\n<div style=\"font-size: 10px; color: #cccccc; line-break: anywhere; word-break: normal; overflow: hidden; white-space: nowrap; text-overflow: ellipsis; font-family: Interstate,Lucida Grande,Lucida Sans Unicode,Lucida Sans,Garuda,Verdana,Tahoma,sans-serif; font-weight: 100;\"><a style=\"color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;\" title=\"The Rosenfeld Review Podcast (Rosenfeld Media)\" href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/rosenfeld-media\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">The Rosenfeld Review Podcast (Rosenfeld Media)<\/a> \u00b7 <a style=\"color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;\" title=\"Scale Your Org and Grow Your Designers\" href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/rosenfeld-media\/scale-your-org-and-grow-your-designers\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Scale Your Org and Grow Your Designers<\/a><\/div>\n<p id=\"3869\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] Courtney Maya George is giving a talk at this year\u2019s DesignOp Summit called \u201cScale Your Organization and Grow Your Designers.\u201d I wanted to dig into this topic because I sense that you see the role of designops to some degree as a stabilizer. In the past few years, we saw rapid growth in design organizations. And now we\u2019re moving into this time of more uncertainty. Can you speak on your role as a stabilizer throughout all this?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"13bd\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] Yeah, I think it\u2019s the role of any design leader is to provide that stability for the people on their team, whether that is building out structures and processes or giving them growth opportunities. I was reading a Gallup article where they talk about important things around trust, compassion, hope, and stability. I think that was really insightful for me on how everything we do as designops leaders needs to tackle those four things for the people on our team to feel like they have that stability and growth.<\/p>\n<p id=\"e957\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] So beyond company stability, there is also being there for people and making them feel secure, making them feel that they can trust the setting they\u2019re working in. Those people skills are really important, but they\u2019re also hard to scale. And if you\u2019re a designops leader, you might have endless reserves of compassion, but you only have so many hours in a day. How do you scale that for a larger organization?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"013c\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think what we\u2019ve seen in the last few years is that leading with the head is not enough. Leading with the heart can be hard to measure, but that authenticity that you can bring to the role, even if it is, \u201cI only have so many hours in the day, and I will accomplish what I can,\u201d just having those types of conversations go a long way.<\/p>\n<p id=\"a591\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">Let\u2019s say, for example, you\u2019re bringing in JIRA to be able to track work. Before the pandemic, we would\u2019ve talked a lot about how that helps your cross-functional partnerships and how that\u2019s making your design team accountable and transparent into the work of designers. But what I realized in my role at Amplitude is that it\u2019s also a tool to help decrease burnout. It gives you a tool to say, \u201cthese are all of the things that I\u2019m working on as a designer, I need help taking some of these off my plate.\u201d If you didn\u2019t have that, there\u2019s no evidence or measurable way to see that.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"kp kq kr\">\n<p id=\"e617\" class=\"jp jq kn jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ks kb kc kd kt kf kg kh ku kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">We all get sucked into the day-to-day meetings so that transparency allows you to zoom out for a minute and say, is this what I need to be doing? Am I only focusing on urgent items? Am I missing the important items, and does this align with our team charter or even my own personal career growth? It\u2019s amazing how I\u2019ve seen even simple structures put in place help designers on the team start thinking about that for themselves.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p id=\"db50\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] When you use a tool like JIRA to help your team have insight into what they\u2019re doing as designers, does that, in turn, create some sort of trust or connection that they didn\u2019t have before, or do you have to kind of draw that out for them?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"dbbe\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think it\u2019s a little bit of both. Some teams are more receptive than others. Some people are going to jump right in and say, \u201cI know this is good for me. I may not know what the outcome is, but I\u2019m kind of looking at it in full force.\u201d And as they get that positive conditioning, working with their cross-functional partners, their managers are seeing the benefits. And then there are others where I think it needs to be proven out on what is the ROI of doing this. They will ask you to help convince them that this is actually going to help them. Luckily, I think that the first group of people who are willing to jump in and do it right away helps prove that out for the second group.<\/p>\n<p id=\"1a12\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] Is it easier to build that sense of trust in the good times? Or do they not need you as much in the good times, so maybe you don\u2019t have those opportunities?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"115f\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think it\u2019s easier in the good times, providing you\u2019re still at a company that is stable, or you feel like you have job security. I think there are more facets to have to feel that stability now, and I think instability is always bubbling under the surface or even is at the surface right now. Everything is kind of always at that breaking point where maybe in the good times for some people, certain things were maybe more stable than others. So, I think being cognizant of that as a leader and knowing your team really well, knowing what they\u2019re going through, maybe beyond just the professional world, is extremely important because you might have to hit on how I can provide that stability in different ways for different people, depending on what they\u2019re going through.<\/p>\n<p id=\"08a3\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] Well, that again comes back to that whole point of scalability. So, you\u2019re talking about getting to know people and how they\u2019re different, but let\u2019s say you\u2019re in an organization with a hundred designers and researchers or more, how do you get to that point? Or is it a distributed model where you work with team leaders, and they\u2019re working in turn with their people, and it becomes a big cascade of connections?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"281e\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think it is that second way where you need to be able to trust your leaders to be providing that for their smaller teams. But it\u2019s on you if you\u2019re a leader of many different teams in a large organization to know, what are the values? What are the principles that you are living by that you expect your organization to live by? How are you leading by example? If you are working 60 hours a week, you are already setting the tone for how your leadership style is perceived.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"kp kq kr\">\n<p id=\"9fc6\" class=\"jp jq kn jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ks kb kc kd kt kf kg kh ku kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">The higher up you get, the more conscious you have to be about how you\u2019re leading by example.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p id=\"a6f6\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] So one of the things that I keep coming back to is the illusion of certainty. It feels like you can\u2019t really make plans now because who knows if you\u2019re going to be able to get on a plane or if you\u2019re going to be able to commit to that hire or whatever it might be. Everything seems so up in the air it\u2019s disconcerting. And then I wonder, hasn\u2019t it always been that way beneath the surface that things could always change? I just wonder if we\u2019ve been fed a line that things were more certain than they really were. And I\u2019m wondering if that\u2019s the case that leaders need to start making to people.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"8096\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think that\u2019s a really interesting point. I think I live my life like that because I know how uncertain life can be. And the importance of resiliency is critical to be successful or to be even happy just to live your life. I think when the pandemic happened, that illusion got dropped for people that maybe would\u2019ve been able to have that illusion of certainty a little bit longer. My role in that as a design leader is to help build resiliency.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"kp kq kr\">\n<p id=\"8a15\" class=\"jp jq kn jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ks kb kc kd kt kf kg kh ku kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">What does it mean to go through your professional life in these uncertain times? Is it ever actually certain?<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p id=\"15f4\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">You could always have a reorg. You could always potentially lose your job. There\u2019s a lot of different uncertain things that could happen that maybe we choose not to see, or we don\u2019t need to see, but it\u2019s always there.<\/p>\n<p id=\"99e4\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">So in the good times, it might be easier to focus on the strengths that you have and framing it in different ways. But I think in the bad times, or especially during this pandemic, it\u2019s more about the resiliency that you have to build.<\/p>\n<p id=\"ee4c\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] So how do you help them grow into their natural resiliency?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"f893\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think my leadership style has always been to push people slightly outside of their comfort zone. Because I think you then start to realize, \u201coh, I could actually do this. It\u2019s scary. But if I know that I have the trust and the support of my manager, that if I fail, I\u2019m not gonna lose my job.\u201d I think that naturally starts to show them, \u201cHey, you can do this. You have that natural resiliency. I\u2019m just gonna try to push it out of you a little bit more then maybe you feel comfortable with initially.\u201d<\/p>\n<p id=\"2118\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] That makes perfect sense. Pushing them to be a little uncomfortable and giving them a little slack to, to screw up on occasion. Do you feel like there\u2019s a connection between what we\u2019re talking about here in terms of building resiliency and accepting our own imposter syndrome?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"18f5\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] Yes. I think the imposter syndrome is very much a self-critic. I have it. You have it. Everyone has it. I think sometimes it\u2019s really nice to have somebody else believe in you and to have somebody else say, \u201cI\u2019m gonna be that person.\u201d That\u2019s gonna give you the self-assurance for this moment. Being that person to say something that maybe just quiets their inner critic for a few minutes. Everyone sometimes needs that little external validation. And I think that actually goes a longer way than I realized when I was just starting out as a design leader. Especially during the pandemic times, I\u2019m seeing how important and how those little things can really go a long way in helping somebody reach their potential and find that natural resiliency.<\/p>\n<p id=\"f381\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] I want to take a slight turn because you work at Amplitude and you\u2019ve got data in your job title. It\u2019s a data driven environment, but you\u2019re also talking about psychology and we\u2019re talking about things that aren\u2019t always measurable. So how do you know when you\u2019ve been successful in your role as a designops leader who is trying to help people in these ways that we\u2019re talking about here?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"2cf0\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] Right now I focus mostly on qualitative feedback. We have a kudos channel at work, and we try to give props to people in our team. So, we do it a lot more anecdotally. I\u2019m still trying to crack the code on how do you quantitatively measure something like this? I don\u2019t think there is an easy way. There\u2019s always a risk of, if you go too quantitative, have you lost the heart that this all started with? So, I think there is a blend that you have to find. There are things like engagement surveys so, there are definitely ways but I would love to chat more with other people who have tried different things, because I\u2019m still in that experimenting phase to see how to really measure something like this.<\/p>\n<p id=\"8d14\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] What\u2019s a nice qualitative story you could tell about a moment you knew you were on the right track with your team?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"1e0c\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\">[Courtney] I think it was when I had a designer tell me that they feel the support to be able to push back. And that setting boundaries is a skill that they\u2019ve realized that they need to have, and that they feel much safer being able to do that when they have the support of me being able to come in and have their back and I will be there. Getting that nice feedback from that designer was showing me that I was on the right track.<\/p>\n<p id=\"c10a\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">[Lou] Thank you so much for joining us today in the Rosenfeld review and I\u2019m really looking forward to your talk at the DesignOps Summit.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p id=\"21ac\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">Rosenfeld Media\u2019s next conference is the DesignOps Summit, a virtual conference coming up September 8\u20139. Learn more at\u00a0<\/strong><a class=\"au ko\" href=\"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener ugc nofollow noreferrer\"><strong class=\"jr ii\">https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<p id=\"e361\" class=\"pw-post-body-paragraph jp jq ih jr b js jt ju jv jw jx jy jz ka kb kc kd ke kf kg kh ki kj kk kl km ia gi\" data-selectable-paragraph=\"\"><a class=\"au ko\" href=\"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/rosenfeld-review-podcast\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener ugc nofollow noreferrer\"><em class=\"kn\">The Rosenfeld Review<\/em><\/a><em class=\"kn\">\u00a0podcast is brought to you by Rosenfeld Media. Please subscribe and listen to it on iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast platform. Tell a friend to have a listen and check out our website for over 100 podcast interviews with other interesting people. You\u2019ll find them all at\u00a0<\/em><a class=\"au ko\" href=\"http:\/\/www.rosenfeldreview.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener ugc nofollow noreferrer\"><em class=\"kn\">RosenfeldReview.com<\/em><\/a><em class=\"kn\">.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/section>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/article>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The following article is based on a recent interview conducted by Lou Rosenfeld, Publisher of Rosenfeld Media from his podcast,\u00a0The Rosenfeld Review. The interview has been edited for clarity and length. This week, Lou sits down with the Head of Design for the Data Team at Amplitude, Courtney Maya George, to discuss her talk \u201cScale [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":2121,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2119"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2119"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2119\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2125,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2119\/revisions\/2125"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2121"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2119"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2119"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rosenfeldmedia.com\/designopssummit2022\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2119"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}